Preaching to the Choir

[talktooloose]

John Tory is now on record as saying that a reason to vote for his party is that he will allow the teaching of creationism in faith-based schools with taxpayer's money.

Why aren't there any conservative scientists on my flist whom I can shock with this statement? Whose vote I can change?

Also, note to Howard Hampton: Just walking up and down and saying "Dalton McGuinty broke promises" is very 2004. Get a new PR team.

Also, could we get a left-of-centre party whose main drive is not preserving jobs in the car manufacturing sector?

Comments

[ginalin.livejournal.com]

I think it's fine...as long as the creation myths of the other great religions of the world get equal time. Because if you're going to teach creation stories, you might as well hear all of them and choose which one you like best.

Only we should call it comparative religion and/or class, not science class.

Oh, wait...we already teach that. This is basically just re-labeling. Even the creationists know if you label something as "science" everyone HAS to think it's factual. Funny how that works.

[talktooloose.livejournal.com]

No, what's happening is that Tory and his Tories want you to be able to take your education taxes and get a portion of them back to send your kids to faith-based private schools.

Problem no. 1: public support of private schools at the cost of funding to public education.

Problem no. 2: public financing a school that wants to teach creationism as science. Or wants to teach that homosexuals make baby jesus cry. Actually, that would be in violation of Ontario's Human Rights Code so I don't know what would happen there.

This is the Ontario provincial elections we're talking here, btw.

[ginalin.livejournal.com]

Well, there are people who would love the same option here in the States.

In fact, I think Bush has already allowed private schools, Christian schools, to get a certain amount of funding from the gov't with vouchers. As if we have any money for education to waste on crap like this. Even some of the conservative people in my part of the country are getting tired of educational policies that don't allow them to do their jobs properly in this country. I've heard them complaining, even though they voted for the current idiot in charge.

All in all, aside from a huge political reform that causes our government here in the US to REALLY separate church from state, (a claim that never fails to crack me up...church and state are fucking like bunnies here in the USA)the only way to counteract this on a personal level is to make sure your kids are exposed to many different points of view, which is something good teachers do and good parents do, regardless of what crapola is taught in schools.


Sadly, I grew up thinking only one point of view was right, that of conservative, rather literally minded (practically Amish) Christianity. It took me a few years out in the real world to de-program myself. *G*

[toodamnloud.livejournal.com]

Okay, at least that guy's just a provincial hack. I live in a country where the fucking head of state wants that.

[mentalmakeup.livejournal.com]

They've since back-pedaled enormously, realizing what a mistake he'd made. The new stance is:

“If there are schools that teach creationism in science class, they would not be eligible to be funded as part of this proposal,” Ingrid Thompson said Wednesday afternoon, clarifying controversial remarks made by PC Leader John Tory earlier in the day...

...Thompson said that under the Conservative plan, schools would have to follow the Ontario curriculum in order to qualify for the money. http://www.cbc.ca/ontariovotes2007/

[talktooloose.livejournal.com]

Oops. "Our leader didn't really mean to say what he seemed to be saying. As you were."

[lux-apollo.livejournal.com]

*smirk*

[detailbear.livejournal.com]

While the initial packaging of his statement was a bit scary, what the content boils down to is that other faith-based school would be able to do what the Catholic Separate Schools can do now: teach Creationism (or re-incarnation, or the existence of Turtle Island) in religion classes (but not in Science classes).

Unless we are willing to attack the Constitutional guarantee for the Catholic schools to be provincially funded, then we are currently discriminating against Jews, Muslims, Protestants (including the Creationists), Hindus, Unitarians and anyone else who might wish their children to go to a faith-based school and have the Province pay for it.

It really does seem to be all political posturing to me, on both sides.

[talktooloose.livejournal.com]

It is an historical shame and abberation that we support Catholic schools with tax dollars. Extending that mistake to every other stripe of religious yahoos does not strike me as a great leap forward for democracy, especially given the woeful state of public school funding.*

Canada is a nation of immigrants. Unless we want to support every national and religious slice of our multi-cultural pie being eternally separated from the others, we need institutions where all Canadians meet. Public schooling strikes me as the one essential and irreplaceable institution for this. Otherwise, Canada is just a place to come and find financial security, not a nation. Otherwise, we will be the sum of our divisions, rather than the sum of our strengths.

*BTW, I feel the same about gay marriage... take away unequal rights given to ALL couples rather than spreading the boondoggle further.

[spizzy.livejournal.com]

I didn't know that Ontario supported Catholic schools (but no other religious schools) with tax dollars until last year sometime, and my eyes boggled. I completely agree that they should support no religious-based schools. It's shameful that Catholics get special treatment.

[detailbear.livejournal.com]

Such was the price of ending the Seven Years War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_%281763%29#Quebec_question), and wishing for continued peace in the newly captured colonies. Then the principles were codified in the BNA Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Act%2C_1867), (now the Constitution Act, 1867).

[lux-apollo.livejournal.com]

*shrugs*

Tory's a fucktard. Too bad most of Ontario won't see that.